Man Claims Genetics Does Not Prove Paternity (Full Episode) | Paternity Court


Please be seated. Hello, Your Honor. Hello. This case ofEnglund v Kiser.Thank you, Ron.
Good day, everyone. Ms. Englund… (AUDIENCE RESPOND) JUDGE LAKE: You say that you
and Mr. Kiser have been
together for six years, have a 3-year-old son
together but claim he’s now denying
your six-month-old
son, Isaac and you’re here to prove
that he is the father. ENGLUND: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: Mr. Kiser,
you acknowledge one child with Ms. Englund but say Isaac is not yours. You say that
during your separation
from Ms. Englund, she slept with another man and you are 100% sure he is the father. Yes, Your Honor. So, Ms. Englund… Why is Mr. Kiser
accepting one child
but not the other? We’ve been through everything. I’ve supported him,
I’ve took care of him, I’ve turned him
into the man he is. You know, I took him
from ashy to classy and he’s not supportive
at all of it
and he wants to say that it’s not his. I’ve always been classy. ENGLUND: Now that
can be debated. JUDGE LAKE: Okay. Umm… KISER: Your Honor, she knows
why I deny the baby. She stay gone
for three months
with this other man. JUDGE LAKE: Did you move in
with another man, Ms. Englund? Yes, Your Honor. ENGLUND: Yes, Your Honor.
I did. JUDGE LAKE: So wait… You all in a relationship.
I wanna get the background. We were in a relationship
for four and a half years… JUDGE LAKE: Okay. …before we finally split
and I went with the other man. Okay. And so
during that time
you had one child… ENGLUND: Yes. Well, yes. KISER: Right. And then during the split… During the split,
Isaac was conceived. JUDGE LAKE: All right.
And so basically
your relationship is completely on the brink.
The stakes are high. If it doesn’t get solved
today, it’s over. I can’t do it anymore.
It’s… It’s done. Because it’s that stressful. ENGLUND: It’s that…
Everything is an argument. Yeah, we’re talking
about what’s for dinner.
Peanut butter and jelly. Fries, burgers. Everything is…
That’s not my baby. JUDGE LAKE: A paternity
question… It permeates every
aspect of your life. ENGLUND: Everything. So I can understand
what you’re saying. You keep talking about dinner and we talking
about paternity. We’re still arguing about it. Yes. JUDGE LAKE: Is it difficult
for you to… To handle all of this,
Mr. Kiser? KISER: Yes, Ma’am. Does the feeling of that… You don’t understand
what I’m going through,
Your Honor. The whole time,
I accepted her back,
true enough. But I accepted her back
because we already have a two-year-old
son together,
you know what I’m saying. So you accepted her back.
You said, you know what?
Let’s try again. But she was still pregnant
by this other man the whole time we
were together, Your Honor. Your Honor, that is not true. (STAMMERING) Let me ask you this,
Mr. Kiser. The whole time
she was pregnant and you accepted her back. You’re thinking the whole time and she’s pregnant
by another man. Right. Or were you thinking
this could potentially… …be my child as well? I don’t think it was
my child, Your Honor. I didn’t think
it was my child. ENGLUND: Your Honor… I always thought that
it was another man’s child. I can’t take care
of no man’s baby,
Your Honor. Especially the man
she was cheating
on me with. I was not cheating. I never was cheating. She said… Your Honor, she said
she wasn’t cheating
on me, right? KISER: But she has other
men’s phone number long before she moved out. And she was still
staying at my house. ENGLUND: How is it his house
and I’m working 12 hours a day to take care of the bills
for that house? I was working KISER: I pay… the graveyard shift.
He was supposed to be home
taking care of the kids. KISER: I help
with the kids all the time. All the time.
The whole time
she was at work. ENGLUND: I can’t say… While I’m at home taking care
of the kids, Your Honor, she on the job,
messing around
with this other man while I’m at home
taking care of the kids. ENGLUND: I’m on the job
messing around
with another man. I’m working 12 hours in a dog bed factory. And that’s how you
got his phone number. And that’s how
I got his… Well, if you would have been
taking care of business
at home no other man would have been
able to even talk to me but you were
too busy fighting. I understand that. You were too busy
finding a reason
to argue at any given second. So obviously there
was a breakdown in the relationship. Your Honor, my sister
passed away and instead of this man
right here taking care of me and hugging me and telling me
everything will be okay, he started to fight and left. But, Your Honor… ENGLUND: He left.
He wasn’t there. The other man is the one
who was texting my phone saying, “Are you okay?” KISER: How did he text you
on your phone? How did he have
your phone number? Why weren’t you
taking care of me? We was arguing
all the time, Exactly. through that time. You are still arguing now. I can’t even
get a word in. So there obviously was a breakdown
in the relationship. KISER: Right. Yes, Ma’am. And you ended up
breaking up? JUDGE LAKE: Completely. ENGLUND: And the only reason
that I left him, Your Honor, is because the other man
was paying more attention
than he was. If you have your…
If your woman is working 12 hours graveyard, when your woman comes home, wouldn’t she like to have
a little breakfast or… She goes to sleep.
I had to put
our baby to sleep when I’m coming home
at 5:00 a.m. I have to put my baby
to sleep, then I have to do
my school courses online. KISER: Not every day,
not every day. Everything was all
on Shirley and nothing was
on Mr. Kiser. Not every day. She didn’t have to put
the baby to sleep
every day, Your Honor. ENGLUND: I left because… When my sister died
and he was not there for me, and I needed
a shoulder to cry on,
I didn’t have it. JUDGE LAKE: Right.
So you went
with this other guy. I went with the other man
because he made it unbearable
for me at the house. And now you say that
this man, Mr. Kiser, is baby Isaac’s biological father. Yes, Ma’am. Okay, listen. The question is… Is the timing in which
he was conceived. KISER: Yes. ENGLUND: I can explain that
to you right here. JUDGE LAKE: Wait, now we’re
back on track. Ron, can I see that
evidence, please? RON: Yes, Ma’am. Your Honor,
on the 25th of March, is the last time I had… Been sexual
with the other man. JUDGE LAKE:
On the 25th of March, you were intimate
with the other guy. ENGLUND: Yes, Ma’am. JUDGE LAKE: Keep going. ENGLUND: Okay. ENGLUND: On the 28th,
me and Mr. Kiser,
we got back together. I came back to where he
was at with our children. We had unprotected sex
on the 28th the 29th, the 30th, the 31st and the 1st. KISER: Mm-hmm. And my conception date
is the 30th of March. I had sex with the other man before the conception window. Were you sleeping
with this other man
unprotected? No, Ma’am. JUDGE LAKE: So on the 5th, you take a pregnancy test
and it comes back negative. ENGLUND: Yes. JUDGE LAKE: In your mind,
you’re saying… Well, if I’m not pregnant
on the 5th, I slept with this
other guy on the 25th, if I’m not pregnant
on the 5th, then it… It can’t be his child. ENGLUND: It can’t be
his child. Mr. Kiser… You don’t look like
you’re buying this at all. I need to say something
really bad. I wanna say something. Your Honor, the reason why
I’m not buying this because she left with
the other guy on the 3rd. I did not have intercourse
with that man anymore. KISER: She can’t… KISER: We slept together from the 28th
into the 31st, right? ENGLUND: No, till the 1st. KISER: She left
on the 3rd
with the other guy. KISER: Right? For two weeks. ENGLUND: On April 3rd… KISER: She’s pregnant
on the 15th. KISER: So how do I know
it’s not the other guy’s baby? Oh, you’re saying
she went back
to the other guy. She left on the 3rd and went back
to the other guy on the 3rd. The 3rd of March
or the 3rd of… KISER: The 3rd of April. 3rd of April? KISER: Yes. JUDGE LAKE: We’re missing
some colors. ENGLUND: No, the 3rd
of April… (AUDIENCE LAUGH) ENGLUND: The 3rd of April… On this calendar. ENGLUND: Ma’am. Your Honor… ENGLUND: The 3rd of April
I left and went back
but I never had intercourse
with that man again. KISER: How do I know… With my co-worker. You don’t know that.
You just have to go
off my word. ENGLUND: That baby’s
also tongue-tied. Genetic trait. That baby looks like
our 3-year-old child. Same trait. KISER: Okay. JUDGE LAKE: And you’re
referring to… KISER: Okay. ENGLUND: Yes, Ma’am. JUDGE LAKE:
A medical condition… She don’t know
if that guy’s father ENGLUND: That’s not true
’cause I… …is tongue tied or not. What if the other guy
didn’t have it, but his daddy had it. You see what I’m saying,
Your Honor? His daddy did not have it. I reached out and
asked questions. How does she know that? She never met
the guy’s father. JUDGE LAKE: Listen,
it is your assertion
that because… Baby Isaac is tongue-tied… And that’s a medical condition
that Mr. Kiser has as well and it’s proven to be… Hereditary, genetic.
It can be passed down. You believe that’s
a further indicator that he is baby Isaac’s
biological father. ENGLUND: Yes, Ma’am. And there is another part of the proof. What is that? Yes, Ma’am. Those teeth that
he has in his mouth. ENGLUND: He was born
with those teeth. Those are… Natal teeth. Mr. Kiser’s first cousin’s
child was born
with teeth as well. JUDGE LAKE: All right. ENGLUND: It would prove to be
a genetic trait as well. JUDGE LAKE: So another
genetic trait is that he was born
with teeth. Usually babies don’t develop
teeth until later on. ENGLUND: Yes. JUDGE LAKE: He was born… He was born. JUDGE LAKE: And that’s another
medical condition that you have seen in Mr. Kiser’s favor. I haven’t heard
about that being a
genetic trait though. ENGLUND: You should do
your research. About the… I haven’t heard about them
being generic trait. JUDGE LAKE: I appreciate
the testimony, but I wanna learn
more about… This particular
medical condition. Ron, could you please escort Dr. Mclaurin
into the courtroom. She is a doctor
of medical dentistry. And I’d like to ask her
a few questions. JUDGE LAKE: Hello, Doctor.
Thank you so much
for joining us. We are here today discussing a paternity issue
as it relates to… Uh, baby Isaac. And Ms. Englund has asserted that because Mr. Kiser suffers from a certain
medical condition, tongue-tie, and her child also does, so that’s further
indicator that Mr. Kiser is her child’s
biological father. I know you’ve been dealing
with these issues for a while over almost 30 years now,
if not more. Can you speak to this issue? Well, the research is all
over the place um, when it comes
to a tongue-tie. MCLAURIN: There is no research
that says 100% that… If he has a tongue-tie,
his child will have
a tongue-tie. KISER: Right. See? ENGLUND: And the research
I’ve read says 50-50% chance
if one parent carries that, 100% chance if both parents
carry the gene. There is research out there
that says that. Is there research that says
otherwise as well? MCLAURIN: Yes. MCLAURIN: And it’s not
necessary that it
says otherwise, it’s just… The complexity comes in diagnosing a tongue-tie. And it’s all over the place,
the definition of that. So any research
that follows that is, um, inconclusive. MCLAURIN: In my practice,
I would say most of my parents report that there is tongue-tie
in the family. JUDGE LAKE: That it’s
in the family. MCLAURIN: Yes. So most of your parents
you, see your clients… They have someone else
in the family that is tongue-tied? Yes. JUDGE LAKE: Now that is
not necessarily their father or their mother? MCLAURIN: Not necessarily. Not necessarily the father
or the mother. I have seen mothers… KISER: Oh, wow. That if the mother
has tongue-tie the… Multiple children
will have tongue-tie. Umm, but there’s not 100% correlation between
tongue-tie and the father. JUDGE LAKE: So what about… Babies born with teeth? Now that is a more
rare condition. That’s, um…
That’s very rare. And 60% of the families that have children
who are born with teeth report that other members
of the family
are born with teeth. JUDGE LAKE: Okay. Wow. JUDGE LAKE:
So in that situation the fact that there is a family member
of Mr. Kiser’s family… KISER: I had no idea,
Your Honor. About the teeth,
I had no idea. So, hearing the testimony
of this expert… KISER: Yeah… Is enlightening? KISER: Yeah. KISER: Eighteen years ago, …cousin…born with teeth.
Eighteen years ago. KISER: So I guess
it is possible. It’s possible but… I mean, she’s still
with this other guy for… For two weeks
before she got pregnant. JUDGE LAKE: Well, that’s why
we bring in expert testimony. Because… KISER: So… We need to understand it. KISER: We don’t know… We can’t find out
if this other guy got… Had people in his family
that had… ENGLUND: No, no, I asked… I asked him,
I asked his sister, I asked his mother. Nobody has any
kind of recollection of anybody being
tongue-tied in their family. Mr. Kiser, if baby Isaac
is not your biological child, can you still work
on the relationship? JUDGE LAKE: Or is it over? No, Your Honor.
It’s over, Your Honor. It’s over. I can’t do it. I can’t do it, Your Honor. It’s over. (STAMMERING) Because
I’ve already helped her
raise her other child and I’ve raised… KISER: And then, it’s going
to be a problem, Your Honor, because this might be the baby of the man who she
actually cheated on me with. So, how am I going
to raise his child? ENGLUND: I never cheated.
I did not get… But you had his phone number before you moved out. But I did not have
any kind… That’s ’cause you cheated. …of physical relation… You wanna talk about cheating,
talk about what you did. If I had his phone number… You wanna talk
about cheating,
talk about what you… You’ve had plenty women’s
phone numbers.
I found how many? How many have I found? No, no. One. One. Because you can’t hide them
in your pant pocket. KISER: I’ll be honest… ENGLUND: One? KISER: And I never have
relation with them. ENGLUND: Your Honor… KISER: I never had… I used to have to go
through this man’s wallet and I pulled out number, number, number, number. I asked him who it was,
he started lying and put
men’s names on the numbers. Your Honor…
That is not true. JUDGE LAKE: All right. I called the woman’s number
and she told me
what he had on. What he was doing… But, Your Honor… …where he was going. Can I say something, please? Can I say something, please? Your Honor,
at the whole time… Those phone numbers
that she found, I never slept with
none of those people. The guy’s phone number
she has, she moved in with him. JUDGE LAKE: So listen… (KISER CHUCKLES) (INDISTINCT CONVERSATION) Listen, listen… KISER: I never slept
with neither women… Now, I have to ask
the question. If baby Isaac is your biological child,
Mr. Kiser, can you all move past
all of this arguing over cheating?
I mean… You all have been arguing
for 25 minutes straight. I don’t wanna… I don’t wanna
cheat no more, Your Honor.
I love this woman. You know what I’m saying? ENGLUND: It gets worse
at the house. Answer my question. Can you repeat
the question, Your Honor? JUDGE LAKE: I know
you didn’t hear it. (ALL CHUCKLING) (CHUCKLING) I don’t know why
we taking testimony
on tongue-tied. You ain’t tongue-tied today. (CROWD LAUGHING) JUDGE LAKE: Okay. Can’t get a word in. KISER: I want that to be
my son, Your Honor.
I do want him to be my son. Okay. KISER: But I just want
to make sure he’s my son. I want to make sure. JUDGE LAKE: That’s why
you’re here. JUDGE LAKE: That’s why
you’re here. And luckily… Right. JUDGE LAKE: Thank goodness, I have those results for you. Ron, the envelope, please. KISER: Thank you. (CROWD CHEERING) These results were prepared
by DNA diagnostics. JUDGE LAKE: In the case
of Englund… Versus Kiser… When it comes
to six-month-old Isaac Englund JUDGE LAKE: It has been
determined by this court Mr. Kiser, you… (AUDIENCE EXCLAIMS) JUDGE LAKE: Are not
the father. KISER: Are you sure? JUDGE LAKE: I’m sorry,
Mr. Kiser. You sure? Are you sure? JUDGE LAKE: I’m so sorry. (RON MURMURING) (CRYING) Oh, I’m so sorry. (KISER CRYING) There’s got to be
a mistake, right? Just a mistake, right? (KISER SNIFFLES) I am so sorry but
it is not a mistake. (KISER GASPING) Oh, my God. JUDGE LAKE: You are not baby Isaac’s
biological father. ENGLUND: But he can be his father. It doesn’t matter if DNA
or not, he can be
that boy’s father. ENGLUND: Just because he has
a daddy that don’t care, why can’t he be
the daddy that does? We’ve been through hell
and back… Six years. We’ve been homeless together. ENGLUND: We’ve had to struggle
to get where we are now. I don’t think it has to end
because that’s not his blood. Our other child,
he raises just fine. JUDGE LAKE: I understand. We, in this courtroom,
recognize that… JUDGE LAKE: Biology
creates family, of course,
but there are also families created through love. JUDGE LAKE: When you all
came into this courtroom, you told me your relationship
was on the line and you needed this answer. But I’m not ready
to let go of the relationship,
Your Honor. I love this man. This is
the longest relationship
I’ve ever been in. And that’s for you two
to figure out if you can
work it out. JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Englund,
I have to ask you. So do you know for certain
that baby Isaac’s father is this other… Man. ENGLUND: Yes, Ma’am. I do. I did not have intercourse
with anybody else.
I’m not a… JUDGE LAKE: Does this man
want to be in his life? No. Neither does the family
of the man. The only people that help
with this child is him
and his family. Mr. Kiser, what would
you like to say, sir? I still want to be
there for her,
to be honest. ENGLUND: Thank you, baby. ENGLUND: I’m so sorry, baby. (KISER SOBBING) It’s a beautiful thing to see
when a child is loved despite everything we’ve had
to go through today, you both love
and cherish this little boy,
and that’s important. And maybe that can be
your starting point. We have counseling
and we have resources for you. JUDGE LAKE: I wish you all
the very best of luck. Court is adjourned. KISER: Thank you.

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